Posts by Bungi Bill

8

Is Religion a Necessary Evil?

by fallen_princess in

Bungi Bill

Religion and ethics are two separate issues:

- a person can be extremely religious, yet still be quite unethical. Sadly, there are all too many of that sort about.

- conversely, a non-religious person can still have a strong code of ethics. As a litmus test as to whether a certain practice is right or wrong, you only need think for a moment what the world would be (i) without it, and (ii) if everyone did it. You certainly don't need some self appointed spiritual leader to tell you what is right and wrong.

The danger with allowing a religion to become the collective conscience is that what normally would be viewed as an atrocity can suddenly become a god-dictated duty:

- eg. Burning children in fires, exterminating the Canaanites, burning heretics at the stake, witholding essential medical treatment (such as blood transfusions or organ transplants) etc.

As to the WTS claim that "spirituality is essential", all I know is that I have got by quite well without it for these last 17 years.

Bill.

34

CO talked out of both sides of his mouth

by life is to short in

today was the last day of the co's visit, my husband stayed home from the meeting and we painted the house together which was good, but he wanted to tie into the meeting, i was ok with it as it allows me to point out the stupid parts of this religion.

there were many things that made no sense but one that truly stuck out.. in his talk the co went on about how there are so many things satan uses to distract us from jehovah and one of them was fear of our future and how some work all their lives for retirement, many at jobs they hate.

people do not enjoy the here and now all out of fear for what will happen when they grow old.

Bungi Bill

It would be a very brave person indeed who attempted to put a limit on what the term "filled" could realistically mean:

- something to do much to do with the matter of sustainability.

Then again, even if that were correctly allowed for, there is still another sustainabilty issue - one that completely torpedoes the idea of "Everlasting Life." How there ever be such a thing, when in 5 billion years time, the sun runs out of nuclear fuel.

Let's see if that bright boy of a Circuit Overseer answer that one!

Bill.

35

KINGDOM HALL IN SHANNON NEW ZEALAND LIES TIDY BUT EMPTY?!!

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there's a kingdom hall in shannon, a small rural town in manawatu, new zealand, 16 kms from the nearest town, foxton, and about 30 kms from palmerston north city (population around 80,000).

jws used to go on about how fast they were growing in new zealand that even a small town like shannon (population little more than 1,000) has its very own kingdom hall.

in the late 70s, the local jws worked hard to build a brand new kingdom hall and i was among the happy throngs when it was dedicated.

Bungi Bill

Who needs a KFC to keep ones cholesterol levels up, when there are two Shark & Shavings - sorry, Fish and Chip - shops in the township?

"Four Square" is a grocery chain over there (The term "Supermarket" would be a little too flattering to describe most Four Square shops).

All jokes aside, perhaps this situation is a commentary on two developments:

- one being the decline in interest towards the likes of the JWs - by all but the immigrant population - in countries such as New Zealand.

- the other development being the changing pattern of population in rural New Zealand. A generation ago it still contained a sizeable measure of young people, whereas now the rural population is noticeably older (and by extension, less tolerant of cranks, such as JWs.)

Bill.

34

CO talked out of both sides of his mouth

by life is to short in

today was the last day of the co's visit, my husband stayed home from the meeting and we painted the house together which was good, but he wanted to tie into the meeting, i was ok with it as it allows me to point out the stupid parts of this religion.

there were many things that made no sense but one that truly stuck out.. in his talk the co went on about how there are so many things satan uses to distract us from jehovah and one of them was fear of our future and how some work all their lives for retirement, many at jobs they hate.

people do not enjoy the here and now all out of fear for what will happen when they grow old.

Bungi Bill

How anybody who has been "In the Truth" for any length of time can suffer out this sort of crap in silence is beyond me!

The WTS has been preaching this line almost forever, leaving generations of Witlesses unprepared for old age and retirement.

Twenty years ago, I can recall a public speaker assuring us that, to quote "Armegeddon is no longer just around the corner - we are, in fact, now looking down the home straight."

If that is mean to be a short "home straight", I would sure as hell hate to see their idea of a long one!.

Bill.

35

KINGDOM HALL IN SHANNON NEW ZEALAND LIES TIDY BUT EMPTY?!!

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there's a kingdom hall in shannon, a small rural town in manawatu, new zealand, 16 kms from the nearest town, foxton, and about 30 kms from palmerston north city (population around 80,000).

jws used to go on about how fast they were growing in new zealand that even a small town like shannon (population little more than 1,000) has its very own kingdom hall.

in the late 70s, the local jws worked hard to build a brand new kingdom hall and i was among the happy throngs when it was dedicated.

Bungi Bill

How many other congregations would have two kingdom halls, I wonder?

Bill.

96

The New World Translation Quote from an Elder

by howdidtihappen in

you've probably heard this before, but at a meeting last night the elder called the nwt the "rolls royce" of bibles.

i'm new to the jw bs (and as soon as i can break away, will do so.

) but do they also believe they have a superior bible to anyone elses outside the religion?

Bungi Bill

"biases reflected in translation are more an indication of human limitations , than it is of dishonesty."

The academic credentials of the NWT Translation Committee are very unimpressive - almost to the point of being non existent. However, it would seem that F.W. Franz and his co-workers largely got it right, despite themselves!

Most of the more contentious passages of scripture in the New World Translation are more the result of doctrinal bias than they are of incompetence. (And contentious pieces of scripture do exist in the NWT - take John 1:1, for example. Expect a violent response if the NWT's translation of that text is shown to anyone of a more fundamentalist Christian denomination!)

It is true that most translations of the Bible to contain doctrinal bias of some sort. However, given the WTS's record of deceit and manipulation, I am not so sure that their bible translation contains "less doctrinal bias than most." (And before anybody jumps down my throat about "how many bible translations are you familiar with," when I first undertook to sit down and read the whole thing from cover to cover, it was the New English translation that I used.)

Furthermore, all translations of the Bible are made from what are only copies of the original Hebrew or Greek texts. These, too, can differ one from the other. The moral of the story is that, when reading any translation of the Bible, you need to be mindful of (i) any doctrinal bias its translators harbored, and (ii) which Hebrew and Greek texts it was translated from.

Bill

PS: Early in my time with the JWs, you used to frequently be assured at people's doors that "you have to read the King James version of the bible to properly understand it." The King James translation, too, though, contains errors - and not just of the doctrinal bias kind. For example, in one verse, it talks about unicorns as being real creatures!

26

Compilation of the bible and the NWT translation source.

by trailerfitter in

hi,, i have a curious question about when the bible was actually compiled.

from what i understand it was actually compiled under emperor constantines request in the 4th century ad.

this was the nicene creed.. i also am aware that there quite a few books that were considered for inclusion but weren't.

Bungi Bill

Certainly, the academic credentials of the NWT Translation Committee are unimpressive! However, most of its controversial renderings are more to do with doctrinal bias, rather than linguistic incompetence (see Samuel Haas, as quoted above):

- In other words, F.W. Franz & Co. got it largely right, despite themselves!

This, though, is not peculiar to just the New World Translation. To a greater or lesser degree, doctrinal bias influences the rendering of certain bible texts in practically all translations of the scriptures. (For example, the Catholic Church's Jerusalem Bible places an extra slant on the bible texts that deal with the roles entrusted to Peter).

When using any translation of the Bible, caution needs to be exercised - keeping in mind both what texts it was translated from, and what doctrinal background its translators had.

Bill.

67

Sept. 15th WT - Burdened with Earning a Living? Here! Have MORE Burdens !

by flipper in

jw
friends

as if the other sept. 15th wt thread i started weren't controlling enough - in another study article titled " run ..... that you may attain it " were you aware that just eating and wearing clothes on your body - might be a " stumbling block " to you ?

in a prior article on pg.

12 , paragraph 6 the wt society sets up what they are trying to get across by stating, " people of the world tend to seek personal interests first as " men of this system of things, whose share is this life.

Bungi Bill

During my formative years, I was an avid reader of everything that this lot printed - unfortunately.

Now, reading this extract from the Sept 15th WT serves as a reminder as to why so much of my life has been ####ed-up! (Naughty word that rhymes with "truck").

Also, a double standard becomes evident here. They go on about the virtues (even necessity?) of having nothing materially - yet when there is a kingdom hall to be built, still expect the R&F to come up with the money to pay for it.

Bill.

27

Another 1975 coming soon

by fade_away in

jw
friends

i heard some analysts on the news recently saying that at the rate the us is falling and china rising, it is expected that china will be the super power within the next 30 or 40 years.

if that happens then i guess there will be another mass exodus of jws from the wt despite what new light they come up with.

but if the witlesses are right then that means god must intervene and the great tribulation and armageddon is coming in less than 30 or 40 years.

Bungi Bill

Jaguarbass,

I concur 100%!

Bill.

11

"All Scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial" .....

by smiddy in

did you just take that scripture at face value ?

beleiving it to be so ?.

was" all scripture is inspired by god" written down at that one time ?

Bungi Bill

There were differences in translation between the Septuagint version and the Hebrew text. Once such difference is in the translation of Jeremiah, Chapter 25.

In the Hebrew text, Judah is listed as only one of a number of Middle Eastern countries in servitude to Babylon. According to the Septuagint version, however, you would get the idea that Judah alone was placed in servitude - thus helping the WTS stand that the "seventy years" meant something other than just mere servitude.

Bill.